Date: 2022-04-05
Time:
0800-1130 UTC
0900 -1230 BST
Zoom Meeting Details
Topic: SNOMED Editorial Advisory Meeting
Time: Apr 5, 2022 09:00 AM London
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Attendees
Chair:
AG Members
- Alejandro Lopez Osornio (ex officio)
- Keith Campbell
- Jeremy Rogers
- Monique van Berkum
- James R. Campbell
- Jeffrey Pierson
- Paul Amos (ex officio)
Invitees
Apologies:
Meeting Files:
Meeting minutes:
The call recording is located here.
Objectives
- Obtain consensus on agenda items
Discussion items
Item | Description | Owner | Notes | Action |
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1 | Call to order and role call | This meeting is being recorded to ensure that important discussion points are not missed in the minutes. The recording will be available to the SNOMED International community. Joining the meeting by accepting the Zoom prompt declares that you have no objection to your comments being recorded |
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2 | Conflicts of interest and agenda review | |||
3 | UK NHS Digital announcment | Jeremy Rogers | Release of SNOMED Code usage statistics. Discussion: UK Primary Care data had been collected 2019-2021 and will be released publicly representing use of SNOMED CT concepts. A description of the types of data that will be released was presented. Precision rounded up to the closest 10 for number of uses. Can be used to guide SNOMED in terms of inactivations and replacements. Provides analytical support for use of SNOMED CT concepts and relationships amongst them. | |
3 | Inactivation of concepts related to legality of abortion | Jim Case | A request from Argentina to inactivate concepts related to the legality or illegality of "Induced termination of pregnancy" or "abortion" (disorders). Briefing note attached. Discussion: Decision: | |
4 | X (person) vs. X of subject (person) | Jim Case | A question from a member country on when to use "X (person)" vs. "X of subject (person)" has exposed issues with determination of equivalence in information models that either split the relationship from the condition vs. using a precoordinated Situation concept to represent the SUBJECT RELATIONSHIP CONTEXT. 3/15/2022 - Update A report on the use of person concepts as values for the SUBJECT RELATIONSHIP CONTEXT attribute is located at: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LTPSInpRC_HMPniQANM8NL86WCieSAttoPYDS_yxjno/edit#gid=1
Discussion: "X of person" was introduced to support the SUBJECT_RELATIONSHIP_CONTEXT of Situations. Monique van Berkumwill look for some history on why they were added. Suggested that the ECE might have some history on these. Question is whether we need to separate out the relationship values from "persons" as a class? The main distinction made in the reference paper is that between an "Entity" and the "Role" played by an Entity. However, this distinction is not made within the person hierarchy, with << 444148008 |Person in family of subject (person)| primarily representing roles that Person entities play being in the same Person hierarchy. Since the 444148008 |Person in family of subject (person)| is primarily used as values for the SUBJECT RELATIONSHIP CONTEXT attribute, we can question why it is in the Person entity hierarchy. A question raised by the reference provided is whether a well-established role (e.g. father) can also exist as an entity? Can a father exist as a standalone entity without the establishment of a relationship to another entity? 4/5/2022 Decision: Background will be investigated. The person hierarchy needs some review and rationalization. Background document posted above. Will review for next meeting. | |
5 | Flavors of NULL; data not recorded, activity not done in Findings Hierarchy | Jim Case | We have received a request for a concept "Patient race not recorded" as a subtype of 312863000|Patient data not recorded (finding)| along with a request to create a new Observable entity and finding value to allow for modeling of concepts related to clinical documentation not being recorded. I.E. INTERPRETS = Demographic detail (observable entity) as well as subtypes specifying the type of demographic information. HAS INTERPRETATION = Not documented (qualifier value) This type of concept appears to be a "reason" for missing data as opposed to a NULL value. FHIR incorporates these "flavors of NULL" in many of their value sets. Are these really findings? Discussion: Decision: | |
6 | Change to definition of 246454002 |Occurrence (attribute)| | Jim Case | The current definition of the Occurrence attribute is: "This attribute refers to the specific period of life during which a condition first presents. However, conditions may persist beyond the period of life when they first present." In many cases, the presentation of a condition occurs after the period of life in which it is observed. This is especially true when there is a continuum of time periods; where it can be determined that a disorder actually began prior to the time in which it is observed. New additions to the 282032007 |Periods of life (qualifier value)| hierarchy to support maternal pregnancy and fetal development phases warrants a revision of the definition of this attribute. A proposed new definition for the Occurrence attribute is: "This attribute refers to the specific period of life determined to be the period of onset of a condition. This may be prior to the actual initial observation and conditions may persist beyond the period of life when they first present." This issue arose during a remodeling of Birth trauma, where it can be determined that the trauma occurred prior to or during delivery of the child, but is not necessarily noticed until after complete delivery. Discussion: Decision: | |
7 | Moving "at risk" Clinical findings to Situation | Jim Case | Based on a request from a member country, we seek advice on the potential move of << 281694009 |Finding of at risk (finding)| from the Clinical Findings hierarchy to the Situation hierarchy. Rationale:
At risk findings = 254 (5 sufficiently defined, but through multiple primitive parents) At risk situation = 5 Given the rationale above, it is proposed to inactivate and replace the current finding concepts with new Situation concepts using the terming pattern "At increased risk of X (situation)" based on the change of meaning to be more explicit and the movement to the Situation hierarchy. Questions:
Discussion: Decision: | |
8 | Measurement Findings: Proposed changes to FSNs Update on Positive/Negative findings | Paul Amos |
Discussion: Decision:
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9 | Non-medicinal products/non-therapeutic roles | Proposal for initial phase to remove concepts representing non-medicinal products and non-therapeutic roles from the Substance hierarchy. Discussion: Decision: | ||
10 | AOB | EAG | ||
11 | Next meeting | EAG | Tentative: May 25, 2022 10:30 PDT | |