Date and time
2019-10-29 5.30 UTC (13.30 local Malasian time)
Zoom Details
Apologies
Objectives
Introduce the Observables model to newcomers.
Discuss when to apply the process and the quality pattern respectively.
Discuss how to progress a resolution to the Observable/Evaluation procedure demarcation issue.
Discussion items
See below.
| Item | Description | Owner | Notes | Action | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Welcome & apologies |
| |||
| 2 | Conflicts of interest | None stated | |||
| 3 | Minutes from previous meeting | Daniel Karlsson | |||
| 4 | Intro to Observables model | Presentation was provided. A discussion mainly on the level of specification of Observables regarding e.g. units (specified or not specified in the definition) and property type (amount of substance or mass concentration or generic quantity concentration). | |||
| 5 | Process vs quality pattern | Discussion page here. 2019-10-21: Presentation here. Issue: potentially two different patterns for representing rate or rate like observables depending on whether the observable is a sample in time or the sample represents a total, e.g. heart rate in beats per minute represents a time-discreet observation over a sample, not the number of beats during a specified minute instance. Today, all Observables of this (or these) kind(s) are represented as process observables. The issue was discussed at the EAG meeting 2019-10-28 and the conclusion was that a single pattern would be used for all rate observables, including when there is a specified period in the Observable FSN. The discussion at the Observables PG meeting to the opposite direction. A separation of cases where the time-span is a totality and where the time-span is a "random" sample. E.g. the intake of protein during a specific day is a mass observable and not a mass rate observable. 2019-11-18: Look at examples on the discussion page. | |||
| 6 | Observables and Evaluation procedures | Issue: since Observables were introduced into SNOMED CT the demarcation between Observables and Evaluation procedures has been a potential source of variability of SNOMED CT use. In order to progress this issue the group need to agree on what knowledge is needed to inform any future decision. Also this issue was discussed at the EAG meeting 2019-10-28: the SNOMED concepts in the Evaluation procedure hierarchy were the result of an import from LOINC in 1997. Though, from that time on concepts have been added in different ways. In some implementations (e.g. KP) Evaluation procedures have been used for ordering (and LOINC for reporting). When Read codes where used, the same codes were used both for requesting and reporting.
As shown in the figure above, Evaluation procedures and Observables represent two aspects of the same entity: either a procedure observing some feature or an observable about some feature, observed using some observation procedure. Both concept models share the representation both of what is observed (the feauture) and how that is observed (the procedure). The information model will provide context to any code used in a request or report model. Given the two application domains, is there a requirement to host both in SNOMED CT? Are there "tangible" differences (e.g. in specificity) between the procedure or observable feature aspect? To inform decision making some information should be gathered, including information on number of JIRA issues relating to Evaluation procedures and Observables, use in SNOMED CT definitions as value of the | INTERPRETS | attribute, and information on actual use in information systems. | |||
| 7 | Next meeting | Next meeting is 2019-11-18 20.00UTC | |||
| 8 | AOB |
|
Meeting Files
Recordings
https://snomed.zoom.us/recording/share/9LRJSIO4cVDB4_FV10LwKZx1JRH2TO33LIdorGfqYTCwIumekTziMw
Previous Meetings
| Title | Creator | Modified | |
|---|---|---|---|
| E2O meeting 20220825 | Daniel Karlsson | 2022-Aug-25 | |
| 2022-05-23 - OBSERVABLE Meeting | Daniel Karlsson | 2022-May-24 | |
| E2O meeting 20220504 | Daniel Karlsson | 2022-May-05 | |
| 2022-04-25 - OBSERVABLE Meeting | Daniel Karlsson | 2022-Apr-26 | |
| 2022-04-06 - OBSERVABLE Face-to-face Meeting | Daniel Karlsson | 2022-Apr-25 | |
| 2022-03-21 - OBSERVABLE Meeting | Daniel Karlsson | 2022-Mar-31 | |
| E2O 23rd meeting 20220223 | Daniel Karlsson | 2022-Feb-23 | |
| 2022-02-21 - OBSERVABLE Meeting | Daniel Karlsson | 2022-Feb-22 | |
| E2O 22st meeting 20220202 | Daniel Karlsson | 2022-Feb-02 | |
| 2022-01-24 - OBSERVABLE Meeting | Daniel Karlsson | 2022-Jan-24 | |
| 2021-12-20 - OBSERVABLE Meeting | Daniel Karlsson | 2021-Dec-20 | |
| 2021-11-15 - OBSERVABLE Meeting | Daniel Karlsson | 2021-Dec-16 |
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