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Zoom Meeting Details
Topic: SNOMED CT Editorial AG (Open to Observers) (09:00-12:30 BST)
Time: Apr 4, 2023 09:00 London
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Attendees
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Meeting minutes:
The call recording is located here.
Objectives
- Obtain consensus on agenda items
Discussion items
Item | Description | Owner | Notes | Action |
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1 | Call to order and role call | This meeting is being recorded to ensure that important discussion points are not missed in the minutes. The recording will be available to the SNOMED International community. Joining the meeting by accepting the Zoom prompt declares that you have no objection to your comments being recorded |
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2 | Conflicts of interest and agenda review | None noted. | ||
3 | Dose forms Briefing Note | A Briefing Note has been written to inform the community of practice about changes to the dose form modeling to include the use of newly published concentrate dose forms (added as required by the EDQM mapping project) in the modeling of clinical drugs in the International Edition of SNOMED CT. The intent is to gather feedback on a change to Editorial Guidance for clinical drug concepts with dose form of drops or spray (feedback to be received by 22th April). The document is attached to the meeting agenda above. | ||
3 | At risk concept modeling update | Based on input from Monique van Berkum (document attached to agenda above) and the Gravity project, 13 "at risk" concepts submitted by the Gravity project were inactivated. Additionally, a recommendation to create the necessary pre-coordinated concepts for use in the HAS REALIZATION relationship for the At risk model has mitigated the current need to extend the range of HAS INTERPRETATION, for the purposes of modeling risk findings. This remodeling has been performed and should be available in the May 2023 release. The full model currently being used for "At risk" concepts is defined in the template located at: At [qualifier] risk of [finding/event] (finding) - Ready for review High vs. increased and Low vs. decreased Based on discussion at previous conference call, 1144845004 |Risk of suicide decreased (finding)| has been inactivated and replaced by 394687007 |At low risk for suicide (finding)|. A new concept grouper 1279548003 |Finding of low risk level (finding)| has been created to aggregate low risk concepts. Decreased risk are no longer accepted due to ambiguity as to relative decrease vs. below an established normal level. Many vague risk concepts have been inactivated and replaced with more explicit and specific concepts (e.g. 409046006 |Perinatal risk (finding)| replaced by 1269553009 |At increased risk for perinatal disorder (finding)| Discussion: |
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Expansion of the range of HAS INTERPRETATION | James R. Campbell | Document by James R. Campbell related to risk calculators is attached to the agenda. The primary premise is that the "proper use of HAS_INTERPRETATION when INTERPRETATION has value of an Observable entity is that the valueset must adhere rigorously to datatype restrictions specified by the SCALE_TYPE defining the Observable concept." Additionally, the following extensions to the concept model are proposed: 1) Expand the valueset constraints for 719722006|Has realization (attribute)| Note: Range for this attribute is currently << 272379006 |Event (event)| OR << 404684003 |Clinical finding (finding)| OR << 71388002 |Procedure (procedure)| OR << 719982003 |Process (qualifier value)|
In reference to content development in the International release, the following must be considered:
Discussion: | ||
Mechanical Complication of device | Jim Case | Should "Mechanical complication of device" be a disorder or a finding? Current situation: 111746009 |Mechanical complication of device (disorder)| has 215 subtypes, all of which refer to a failure of a device without specifying a deleterious effect on the patient. e.g. 285961000119107 |Mechanical breakdown of prosthetic heart valve (disorder)| We also have disorder concepts that refer to a patient condition due to mechanical failure of a device e.g. 5053004 |Cardiac insufficiency due to prosthesis (disorder)| Without specifying the resultant condition associated with device mechanical issues, is it appropriate that these are represented as patient disorders, or should they be findings that may be related to disorders in the patient? A briefing note using "Leakage of device as an example is located here. Discussion: Without an associated condition in the patient it is unclear whether there is an adverse impact on the patient. In general, if the device is implanted, it can be assumed that there is a negative impact. These should be retained as disorders. Each of the subtypes would need to be evaluated as to the potential impact on the patient. | ||
Potential for inactivation of navigational concepts | Jim Case | It was suggested at a recent Modeling Advisory Group meeting that SNOMED should consider inactivating the 363743006 |Navigational concept (navigational concept)| hierarchy. A list of 635 primitive concepts that are unable to be defined due to their highly contextual use. The concern is that because they are more or less "orphan" concepts, and provide no analytical advantage, they would be discouraged from use in medical records. However, because many of these descriptions are those that are commonly used in clinical records, with organizationally specific meaning, they are being entered into EHRs. UK has high usage of a few of these: CONCEPTID FSN USAGE 2011-2022 394617004 Result (navigational concept) 48,227,610 160237006 History/symptoms (navigational concept) 10,146,392 309157004 Normal laboratory finding (navigational concept) 581,209 267368005 Endocrine, nutritional, metabolic and immunity disorders 160,475 243800003 Test categorized by action status (navigational concept) 108,176 250541005 Biochemical finding (navigational concept) 100,632 It is unclear how these are used in clinical records although from the above list it appears they may be used as document headers . An inquiry to the UK resulted in an interesting observation that some of these highly used concepts are primarily found in only one of two major primary care systems, and some that were not used much a decade ago are beginning to increase in usage. It was proposed to SNOMED that aside from the highly used concepts above, the remainder of the navigational concepts could be inactivated without much impact on users. However, we would need to consider carefully before inactivating the above concepts without suitable replacements due to their high, albeit incorrect, usage. Question: Should these be replaced with Record artifact concepts or something else? Discussion: The NL and AU have not approved the use of navigational concepts. IMO does not recommend use of these. The more general question is whether to inactivate navigational concepts as a whole. The consensus was that that these should be inactivated. Because there are concepts of high use in the UK, they will be contacted and informed of the impending inactivation. Potential replacement concepts for the high use concepts include: 394617004 Result (navigational concept) → 423100009 |Results section (record artifact)| 160237006 History/symptoms (navigational concept) → 371529009 |History and physical report (record artifact)| 309157004 Normal laboratory finding (navigational concept) → None (laboratory is a vague concept) 267368005 Endocrine, nutritional, metabolic and immunity disorders → None (arbitrary grouping) 243800003 Test categorized by action status (navigational concept) → None (meaning unclear) 250541005 Biochemical finding (navigational concept) → None (context dependent) Update Message sent to the UKTC, no response as of yet. Briefing note will be written once input from the UK is received. Section of Chief Terminologist report to Content Committee June, 2010 Questions have been raised regarding editorial policy for Navigational Concepts. There are two main
JTC Note: From the current SNOMED Editorial Guide: "...Navigational concepts were created to group other concepts without explicit regard for defining attributes (since there were none). Their purpose was to provide top level groupers for subsets and reference sets used in implementations. Because the Reference Set mechanism is now available, there is no longer a need for navigational concepts in the International Release; however, they can be added at the national or lower level." The Content Managers Advisory Group comments indicate that these terms are not or rarely used (probably erroneously) aside from the few concepts in the UK listed above. Discussion: Many of these concepts provide some use, but because they cannot be defined they should not be within the SNOMED taxonomy. For replacement values for high usage, we will determine whether a replacement is needed. Consensus that these concepts be inactivated and a briefing note created for the CoP. | ||
Intermediate primitive parent and definition status of subtype | Review of Glossary definition for "Sufficiently defined concept". See sufficiently defined concept Additional information on Necessary and sufficient conditions: D.2 Necessary and Sufficient - Examples Can a concept be sufficiently defined if part of the meaning of the FSN is captured only in the wording of a stated intermediate primitive parent, not in defining attribute-value relationships? For example: Joint laxity (finding) is primitive since it has no defining relationship(s) that capture the "laxity" aspect of the FSN meaning - but can its subtypes (e.g. Elbow joint laxity (finding), Hand joint laxity (finding) etc.) be considered to have a sufficient definition based on the stated parent Joint laxity + their finding site relationship specifying which joint is involved? Currently they are all primitive, but some subtypes of Laxity of ligament are defined on the basis of their intermediate primitive parent and their finding site. Clear, explicit editorial guidance is needed on this question. The statement here "A concept is sufficiently defined if its defining characteristics are adequate to define it relative to its immediate supertypes" is somewhat ambiguous, since it's not clear whether "defining characteristics" here refers to defining attribute-value relationships specifically or to the logical definition as a whole.
Discussion: Concepts with identical definitions aside from the Definition status may be classified as supertype/subtypes, due to the limitations of the concept model to allow for more robust definitions. This is being left with the EAG for additional comments to be reviewed at the April meeting. There is a question about whether the browser can be modified to show an icon that can identify a concept as having GCIs. A question will be forwarded to the tech team. |
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10 | AOB | EAG | ||
11 | Next meeting | EAG | Next meeting April 4. SNOMED business meeting | |