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Date: 2021-09-07

Time:

16:00 - 17:00 UTC

17:00 -18:00 BST


Zoom Meeting Details

Topic: Diabetes Clinical Project Group Conference Call

Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:

https://snomed.zoom.us/j/96803220530?pwd=LzhlRXN4ZEZxSWVkTS9Pa3BLcThlZz09

Password: 507496

Meeting ID: 968 0322 0530

Skype for Business (Lync):
    https://snomed.zoom.us/skype/96803220530


Attendees

Chair:

DCPG Members

Observers:


Apologies:

Meeting Files:


Meeting minutes:

The call recording is located


Objectives

  • Obtain consensus on agenda items

Discussion items

ItemDescriptionOwnerNotesAction
1Call to order and role call

This meeting is being recorded to ensure that important discussion points are not missed in the minutes.  The recording will be available to the SNOMED International community.  

If a majority of participants object to recording, only written minutes will be available, otherwise, anyone objecting to recording is requested to exit the meeting.


  • Recording of meeting approved by participants.
2

Conflicts of interest and agenda review

None stated.


3Combining diabetic complication with the type of diabetes

ALL

Many of the existing concepts relating to complications due to diabetes include an association with a specific type of diabetes:

  • 368151000119108 |Cataract due to drug induced diabetes mellitus (disorder)|
  • 421920002 |Cataract of eye due to diabetes mellitus type 1 (disorder)|
  • 420756003 |Cataract of eye due to diabetes mellitus type 2 (disorder)|

A number of the reviewers have suggested that the focus of the concept should be on the disorder and reference to the type of diabetes is redundant as the patient record should already have a record of this at the time of diagnosis.

See also KP Diabetes requests.xlsx

Discussion:

Combined concepts of the type 421920002 |Cataract of eye due to diabetes mellitus type 1 (disorder)| are expressing 3 facts about the patient, firstly that they have a cataract, second that they are diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes mellitus and thirdly that there is a causal relationship between the cataract and diabetes mellitus type 1.

The focus of the concepts representing complications that are due to diabetes is the complication itself and not the type of diabetes. A decision regarding the type of diabetes will already have been made and recorded within the patients record. Therefore, from a clinical management perspective it makes more sense to record these 2 disorders separately as they may/will require separate clinical management.

It is important to recognise and record the relationship between a disorder and its cause where that cause has been been proven to be due to and specific to another disorder. Therefore, we would recognise and wish to record that someone with diabetic retinopathy has a retinopathy which is clinically evidenced as being due to the diabetes. However, the only reason for recording the type of diabetes is if if there is a clinically identifiable difference between the retinopathy caused by diabetes mellitus type 1 and diabetes mellitus type 2.

Finally, there are some additional untoward effects from creating content that specifies a particular complication against each of the diabetes types; firstly, a significant increase in content (combinatorial explosion) e.g. for each complication that occurs in a single organ we would require more than 100 concepts rather than a single concept that relates a complication to diabetes irrespective of its type. Secondly, retrieval and analytics becomes more difficult as we no longer know whether the diagnosis of type of diabetes is represented within the complication or as a separated coded entry. What happens where the diabetes type differs between the record of the complication and the record of the initial diabetic diagnosis?

Decision:

  1. The consensus of the group is that no further content relating to diabetic complications should reference a specific diabetes type unless there is convincing evidence that the diabetes type gives rise to specific complication variants.
  2. The group recommends that existing content that relates to specific diabetes types is inactivated.






















  • Paul Amos to discuss internally how this can be progressed. 
4Can one distinguish between a diabetic cataract and a senile cataract?ALL


Discussion:

Decision:



5Macula disorders

ALL

Some of these concepts include adjectives:

  • Advanced
  • Clinically significant
  • High risk

Is it possible to define these in a way that supports interoperability?

Discussion:

Decision:


6Glaucoma and Diabetes Mellitus

AK/ALL


Discussion

Decision:



7Proliferative and non-proliferative retinopathyALL

Some of our group feel that these concepts are predominantly available to serve the purposes of the diabetic screening services and that from the perspective of day to day management of the diabetic patient they are less helpful. The intention is to discuss this in depth at our next meeting as part of the feedback from Eye Complications 2 but to introduce the topic now in preparation for the next meeting

Discussion:

Decision:


9AOBALL

10Next meetingALLNext conference call to be agreed











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