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Date 22nd January 2025
GoToMeeting Details
Zoom link - https://snomed.zoom.us/my/pathologycrg
Apologies
Recording
Passcode: 0^D^sEk%
Discussion items
| Item | Description | Owner | Notes | Action |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Review actions log and issues and decisions log | All | ||
| 2 | UK concept promotion request from Netherlands | KN / Feikje Hielkema-Raadsveld Dutch software vendor whose software connects to that of Abbott. They are receiving SNOMED codes from the UK extension |
| Stan and Pam to take to LOINC-SI group to discuss options to make the codes available internationally |
| 3 | Qualitative and semi-quantitative representation in SNOMED CT | KN | Carried over to next session | |
| 4 | ||||
| AOB |
Actions log
| Item | Description | Owner | Notes | Action |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | April 2025 business meeting session for this group | KN / JC | Face-to-face session would be beneficial to tackle some primary issues | Meeting slot has been allocated for Tuesday 8th April 9-12.30 CET Jim Campbell to chair Karim to co-chair |
| 2 | UK need to consider whether inheres_in is superfluous in lab result reporting and align with international terminology | KN / AP | We agree it does not add anything but need to add to internal UK NRC log for discussion | On hold |
| 3 | Time aspect modelling | KN / AP | modelling single point in time explicitly to enable correct classification of content Internal UK NRC log for discussion | Daniel to give a short presentation on time aspect - needs further discussion On hold Discussed with lab experts and the requirement is the same as the LOINC Ontology - time-specific concepts must not be subsumed by unmodelled soft default implicit 'single point in time' concepts |
| 4 | SARS-Cov2 observable entity concepts for reporting viral RNA presence in the SNOMED CT International Edition | FA | These concepts are modelled with both inheres_in and direct_site | Farzaneh to take these back and discuss internally for a steer on the use of inheres_in for these concepts On hold SI propose to remove inheres_in but await formal decision from this group |
| 5 | Use of inheres_in for colour, appearance, identification | FA | inheres_in used for the property to describe the characteristic of an organism, cell or body structure - applicable to LOINC Ontology representations | Farzaneh to present |
| 6 | Fractions and ratios | All | IFCC-IUPAC Silverbook https://iupac.org/what-we-do/books/silverbook/ but also on the homepage: https://labterminology.com/list-of-kinds-of-property/ | Proposed to revisit after reviewing the resources |
| 7 | Relative concentration of a substance in two different specimens Relative concentration two different measurement properties | KN / DK | How do we assess effort vs impact? The requirement to model them accurately for machine reasoning - auto-classifications; erroneous subsumptions Karim reviewed the modelling options with Daniel and presented to group | Young Bae recommended we look at IUPAC relative properties and ratios What is the advantage in developing the full mathematical model in SNOMED CT? Limitations to what can be achieved General consensus that we should pursue via MAG Stan to take to LOINC-SI groupNeeds input from the LOINC Ontology plan - what is the intention for making these machine-readable? |
Issues and decisions log
| Item | Description | Owner | Notes | Decision |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Time aspect specification in description AND modelling | All | Concept is primitive if the description is more specific than the modelling. Concept logical definition must not be more specific than concept description | Must be stated consistently in description AND modelling in accordance with SI editorial policy |
| 2 | Inheres_in is superfluous in lab result reporting | All | Inheres_in effectively duplicates direct_site. They are two different perspectives (lab and clinical) of the same target Direct_site is suitable for sample-based diagnostics and not other areas but NPU will not be following those guidlines | Direct_site attribute sufficiently captures specimen and derivable substance / site from specimen modelling LOINC Ontology to model direct_site NPU to model inheres_in Create interoperable rules and document in guidance Flagged for further discussion What about the requirement to classify extensions? |
| 3 | Representation of percent | All | Concept is primitive if the description is more specific than the modelling. Concept logical definition must not be more specific than concept description unit not required field in LOINC so in SNOMED CT, if fully defined without unit, could generate logical equivalences | Represent percent in the description and the unit in SNOMED CT in accordance with SI editorial policy - provisional decision? LOINC Committee decided to remove 100 denominator and reflect percent as UoM - SNOMED CT modelling still under investigation Needs update from Stan |
| 4 | Inconsistencies - International content for cancer synoptic reporting by immunohistochemistry 1255078008 | Percent of cell nuclei positive for proliferation marker protein Ki-67 in primary malignant neoplasm by immunohistochemistry (observable entity) | | All | Does not use percent unit in modelling e.g. 1 - modelling time_aspect -> single point in time but not stating this in the description In contrast to LOINC Ontology examples that do state 'at single point in time' in the description and model in the logic e.g.2 - use inheres_in whereas LOINC Ontology used direct_site | SI are adding percent unit to the content Awaiting formal decision on inheres_in from this group Awaiting formal decision on time_aspect from this group |
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Previous Meetings
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