Date and time
2022-04-06 12.30-15.30 UTC
Zoom Details
https://snomed.zoom.us/j/8915921345?pwd=cXVsd2lPU3Rpc2FZM3JhTkROSUVpdz09
Password: 5095908349
Attendees
Apologies
Objectives
Discuss and make progress on these issues:
- Evaluation procedures 2 Observables (E2O) progress
- Social Determinants of Health Observables
- Impulsivity Observable
Discussion items
See below.
Item | Description | Owner | Notes | Action | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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1 | Welcome & apologies | Remember recording! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
2 | Conflicts of interest | None stated! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
3 | Minutes from previous meeting | Daniel Karlsson | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
4 | E2O | A number of topics have been identified in the E2O project for discussion in the Observables PG (see presentation here):
2021-10-18: For discussion:
2021-12-20: Report from E2O call 2021-12-15. Plan for proceeding with project and potential transition is being created. | 5 | Scale Observables | X |
Code Block |
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363787002 |Observable entity (observable entity)|:
370130000 |Property (attribute)| = xxxx |Risk|,
719722006 |Has realization (attribute)| = 78275009 |Obstructive sleep apnea syndrome (disorder)|,
272394005 |Technique (qualifier value)| = zzzz |STOP-BANG (assessment scale)| |
Additional scores exist in SNOMED CT, 41 <<273249006 |Assessment scales| has the word "risk" in a description. 80943009 |Risk factor (observable entity)| (which is a misnomer) has 28 descendants.
James R. Campbell to model risk score concepts/sleep scale observables.
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Presentation of two sleep scales (Epworth and STOP-BANG) with proposed Observables modeling.
Nashar Karim should attributes be grouped? Attributes are always self-grouped in the Observables model.
Nashar Karim scale type, should it be Ordinal or quantitative? This is following examples from the LOINC-expression work.
Piper Allyn Ranallo comparing to similar examples from the Mental and behavioral health domain, e.g. impulsivity assessment scales. Will prepare example for next time.
Agreement from the group concerning the proposed modeling.
The E2O project has produced a larger set of commonly used Evaluation procedure concepts as new concepts modeled using the Observables model (n=800+). The set was choosen from the 1000 most commonly used British primary care lab tests, excluding pure orderables.
There is evidence that re-modelling the content can bring significant improvements. There is also evidence that current content is not consistently represented and is in need of work, particularly if some content will stay in the procedure hierarchy.
There is still some disagreement about the requirement to represent orderables and reportables as distinct concepts, and if so, how these may be coordinated.
Two outcomes of the discussins
Social Determinants of Health Observables
2022-02-21:
Presentation of Race and Gender assignment observables.
Alejandro Lopez Osornio in latin america race typically is not recorded, with few exceptions.
Nashar Karim patient-reported, self-assigned, where is that seen in the modeling? It is represented through Interview technique.
Daniel Karlsson recording race is illegal in many European countries.
2022-03-21:
Presentation of proposals for modeling of race, gender, and sex observables.
For all these observables, a general pattern of role assignment was used, i.e. race is assigned for a person by an agent, e.g. the community. There was agreement in the group that this pattern was useful.
For gender and sex observables, there was discussion about the relation between the two. Most agreed that sex and gender are distinct entities, where one is not a kind of the other. There are also many variants of both gender, e.g. and biological sex, e.g. fenotypic (external genitalia, hormone levels) or genotypic.
Further, other standards organizaiton is doing work, paritcularly in the sex and gender area, indluing the HL7 Gender Harmony project https://confluence.hl7.org/display/VOC/The+Gender+Harmony+Project and the ISO TC 215 work on "Sex and Gender in Electronic Health Records" https://www.iso.org/standard/83431.html
Piper Allyn Ranallo to present impulsivity example at next meeting (March 21).
Daniel Karlsson to invite Elaine Wooler for discussion about processes and observables work
Potentially a face-to-face meeting in London April 2-7 2022 https://www.snomed.org/news-and-events/events/business-meeting
- More focused meeting
- E.g. E2O and scale observables
- Could be time to set a more detailed plan for E2O transition
2022-02-21:
Presentation of Race and Gender assignment observables.
Alejandro Lopez Osornio in latin america this typically is not recorded, with few exceptions.
Nashar Karim patient-reported, self-assigned, where is that seen in the modeling? It is represented through Interview technique.
Daniel Karlsson recording race is illegal in many european countries.
Next meeting is March 21 April 18 2022 20.00 UTC.
Agenda:
Meeting Files
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Recordings
Previous Meetings
Content Report Table | ||||||||
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