Date: 2022-08-24
Time:
1030 - 1200 PDT
1730 - 1900 UTC
1830 - 2000 BST
Zoom Meeting Details
Topic: SNOMED Editorial Advisory Group Conference Call
Time: Aug 24, 2022 10:30 AM Pacific Time (US and Canada)
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Password: 039038
Meeting ID: 823 0862 6971
Password: 039038
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Attendees
Chair:
AG Members
- Alejandro Lopez Osornio (ex officio)
- Keith Campbell
- Jeremy Rogers
- Monique van Berkum
- James R. Campbell
- Jeffrey Pierson
- Paul Amos (ex officio)
Invitees
Apologies:
Meeting Files:
Objectives
- Obtain consensus on agenda items
Discussion items
Item | Description | Owner | Notes | Action |
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1 | Call to order and role call | This meeting is being recorded to ensure that important discussion points are not missed in the minutes. The recording will be available to the SNOMED International community. Joining the meeting by accepting the Zoom prompt declares that you have no objection to your comments being recorded |
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2 | Conflicts of interest and agenda review | None noted. | ||
3 | Measurement Findings: Proposed changes to FSNs | Paul Amos |
Decisions to date:
Discussion from 2022-06-15 meeting: It is agreed that the replacement of FSNs is less destructive than inactivation and replacement of concepts. This is only relevant where current content is modeled with above and below reference range. Concepts that are inherently ambiguous are still used in clinical recording. Adding forced meaning to these might make them less useful. Suggested to identify these concepts using a refset that they are problematic from an interpretation point of view. This project was an effort to reduce the ambiguity of existing concepts to ensure clarity of meaning. Retention of ambiguous content may provide clinical recording simplicity but may be in conflict with precision. There is a conflict between the utterances used in clinical recording and the desire to provide structured analytical data. The issue may be exposed when looking at new technologies that go from speech to text to coding... Suggested that the ambiguity can be resolved by using other "imprecise" terms such as "increased" for "above reference range" and "increasing" for "increased relative to prior measurement". Alternative description types may assist in representing broader or ambiguous descriptions. Another suggestion is to allow for these imprecise concepts, but mark them as such within the terminology. Additional Discussion: Reviewed previous decisions: 1. Will revise FSNs instead of inactivation and replacement of concepts 2. If needed, will create terms related to "increased or decreased relative to previous measurement". 3. The interpretation of "normal" is in relation to the clinical state of the patient as opposed to a standard reference range. Reference ranges vary by organization and by clinical condition. To ensure that the meaning of reference range is interpreted correctly, a text definition will be added to the qualifier values stating that these are relative to the clinical state of the patient. "Normal" will not be used as a FSN or PT, but only as an alternative description. Those that say "high" or "low" will be treated similarly. We will not add "normal" descriptions to those measurement findings that do not already have them as descriptions. Abnormal measurement findings: The discussion related to abnormal panel findings was determined to be out of scope. Because we now have the ability to sufficiently define "Abnormal" findings using "outside reference range" it was proposed to keep them, rename the FSN as for Normal (i.e. Outside the reference range). This is restricted to measurement findings. No opposition. Borderline concepts - Borderline high and low are interpreted differently. Suggestions made to how to name these concepts to avoid misinterpretation. Suggested that these would be inactivated and replaced by the more clear terming. Another suggestion would be to inactivate as ambiguous as there are only 29 of them and there have been no requests for more. Medical level measurement findings were presented with the changes that had been made to address therapeutic levels. Is there a benefit to have the therapeutic reference ranges as subtypes of the general reference ranges. Suggest creating a template to ensure the appropriate use of these qualifiers. Need to determine the need for "toxic level" qualifier. Decision: Inactivate the borderline concepts as ambiguous. Remodel FSNs as previously approved. |
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4 | Reactivation guidance | Jim Case | In the course of reterming FSNs as part of the Quality Improvement project, there are occurrences where the change in the FSN to conform to editorial policy results in a validation error identifying an inactive concept with the same FSN. The error is: An FSN must be unique within all active FSNs across all concepts. This term already exists against inactive concept <SCTID>. There had been general guidance provided for this that the inactivated concept with the proper FSN would be reactivated and replace the concept with the improper FSN; however, in many cases this would result in frustration for users, as it would result in the inactivation and replacement of a concept with the concept that it replaced in the first place. Recognizing the need to minimize the impact on users, it is important to take into account the fact that time plays an important role in which concept to inactivate and which one to retain. One consideration is which term has had the "greater opportunity" to be used in health records. This includes when a concept was introduced into the terminology, how long it was active and when it was inactivated. Guidance is needed for instances where duplicate FSNs are created as part of the reterming of active concepts to align with the quality improvement project. Options include:
Discussion: Is it possible to remove the validation constraint? Is that a reasonable approach? If the historical relationship is SAME AS then the validation rule should not apply. Should the validation rule only apply to active concepts? This would not work when creating new concepts. Another approach is to modify the inactive FSN so that it does not appear as a duplicate. Consensus that the active concept with the FSN change should be retained. The historical relationships should be SAME AS and changed if necessary. Decision: Discuss with the technical team about the feasibility to change the validation rule to account for SAME AS relationships. The most recent active concept should be retained and renamed. |
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5 | Modeling of "Palsy" concepts | Paul Amos | A query has arisen internally regarding the definition and modeling of 784289008 |Nerve palsy (disorder)|. The attached Briefing Note details the issues and asks the question; Does "Nerve palsy" have the same meaning as "Mononeuropathy"? Proposals for an updated definition and modification to the modeling, depending on the answer to the above question, have been presented. Please review the briefing note and contribute your thoughts and comments at the meeting. Discussion: Revised definition of palsy proposed and discussed. Equivalence between palsy and paralysis exists in non-English languages, but is distinguished in the English literature. Not enough time to fully discuss, will be revisited in Lisbon. Decision: | |
6 | AOB | EAG | None. | |
7 | Next meeting | EAG | SNOMED Business meeting Monday Sept 26. | |