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Date and time

2020-01-27 20.00 UTC

Attendees


Apologies


Objectives

Discuss how to progress a resolution to the Observable/Evaluation procedure demarcation issue.

  • Evaluation procedure and Observables
  • Briefing note for MF, CMAG and other AGs

Discussion items

See below.


ItemDescriptionOwnerNotesAction
1Welcome & apologies
  • Remember recording!



2Conflicts of interest




3Minutes from previous meetingDaniel Karlsson


4London meetingDaniel KarlssonThe schedule is already becoming full, will try to put Observables discussions into EAG and PaLM respectively.

5Nutrition observables

Nutrition observables

Dietitians are hopeful to have a way to specify the route of delivery in observable concepts to distinguish intake, for example, grams of carbohydrate from parenteral nutrition, other intravenous fluids, enteral nutrition, and orally. Broader concepts that are in process for the January 31, 2020 release, such as, 787764007 |Estimated intake of carbohydrate in 24 hours (observable entity)| would be the parent concepts. The input of this group would be very helpful with regard to the modeling and possible new attributes.



5

Observables and Evaluation procedures

Since Observables were introduced into SNOMED CT the demarcation between Observables and Evaluation procedures has been a potential source of variability of SNOMED CT use. In order to progress this issue the group need to agree on what knowledge is needed to inform any future decision.

2019-11-18:

<<404684003 |Clinical finding (finding)| : 363714003 |Interprets (attribute)| = << 386053000 |Evaluation procedure| ==> 7148 concepts

...but also

1350 hits for <<386053000 | Evaluation procedure (procedure) |: [2..*] { 260686004 |Method (attribute)| = <<129265001 |Evaluation - action (qualifier value)| }

3 hits for <<386053000 | Evaluation procedure (procedure) |: [2..*] { 260686004 |Method (attribute)| = <<129266000 |Measurement - action (qualifier value)| }

611 hits for <<386053000 | Evaluation procedure (procedure) |: [2..*] { 246093002 |Component (attribute)| = * }

2019-12-16:

Some more exploration of existing Evaluation procedure content:

(<<386053000 |Evaluation procedure (procedure)| : [2..*] { * = * }) MINUS <<363679005 |Imaging (procedure)|

10 000-ish Evaluation procedures have 2 or more role groups...

<<386053000 |Evaluation procedure (procedure)| : [2..*] { 246093002 |Component| = * }

611 have 2 or more Components, indicating that it could be a panel. However, many examples are just strangely modeled and likely not intended to be panels. Thus, it's not straight forward to identify panel-like procedures among the Evaluation procedure. Sometimes, e.g. 442553005 | Measurement of chloride in peritoneal fluid specimen (procedure) |, additional Components are inherited from ancestors.

(<<386053000 |Evaluation procedure (procedure)| : [2..*] { 246093002 |Component| = * }) MINUS <<122869004 |Measurement procedure|

Even non Measurement procedures have multiple Components...

<<386053000 |Evaluation procedure (procedure)| : [3..*] { 246093002 |Component| = * }

A few have 3 or more components, many of which are in fact panels, but again likely not all of them. E.g. see <67899004 | Complement component, classic pathway (substance) |.

Briefing note should include:

  • Current status in regard to overlap
    • Actual concepts
    • Concept models
  • Current status in regard to modeling of Evaluation procedures
  • Orders and results use of SNOMED CT
    • Actual use of Evaluation procedure concepts for reporting results
    • Actual use of Evaluation procedure concepts for ordering
  • Panels vs. single-measurement observables/procedures


6Next meeting

Next meeting is 2020-02-17 20.00UTC



7AOB




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