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Date: 2020-10-06

Time:

1600- 1800 UTC

0900-1100 PDT

Zoom Meeting Details

Topic: SNOMED Editorial Advisory Group Conference Call

Time: Oct 6, 2020 09:00 AM Pacific Time (US and Canada)

Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android: 
https://snomed.zoom.us/j/9574329981491029626165?pwd=OVRKM1h4TG1SZzVaaE90WkZ1bTc5Zz09
    Password: 278629Z01GZWY2N1UxTlN1bW5XaG5zNVl5UT09

 Meeting ID: 957 4329 9814

    Password: 278629
    International numbers available: https://snomed.zoom.us/u/apmtg2lWH

Or Skype for Business (Lync):
    https://snomed.zoom.us/skype/95743299814


Meeting Files:

View file
nameSemantic Interoperation of Lab with SNOMED CT (2).pptx
height250


Meeting minutes:

The call recording is located here.


Objectives

  • Obtain consensus on agenda items

Discussion items

Analysis of questions from 2020-09-09 call, following model testing:

Questions (and answers):

  • Should we consider ALL fractures as traumatic (e.g. pathological fractures are minor trauma to weakened bone)? [NOTE: This has been the historical representation in SNOMED CT]
    • AG recommended on 2020-09-09 that these concepts be remodeled as traumatic.  Further testing of modeling revision is proposed (see below)
    • Testing of remodeling showed that by creating a generic "Fracture of bone" concept that did not specify whether the fracture was traumatic or non-traumatic allowed for the distinction to be made.  This is based on the determination that by "traumatic, we mean a sufficient physical force that would compromise normal, healthy bone. 
    • Impact of newly propose model on searching and CDS is discussed.
  • Can we infer that all non-traumatic fractures are pathological fractures (i.e. requires some predisposing bone pathology)?
    • As described by the definitions provided by Dr. Goldberg, pathologic fractures are usually associated with disease pathology such as neoplasia, while fractures occurring due to decreased bone density are called "insufficiency fractures".  
    • ICD-10 considers fractures occurring in the presence of osteoporosis as pathologic fractures (see M80 - Osteoporosis with pathological fracture), while ICD-11 does not have any codes associating fractures with osteoporosis, although they do refer to pathologic fractures in association with neoplastic disease.  Neither ICD-10 nor ICD-11 recognizes "Insufficiency fractures" (Not a subtype of ICD Fracture types)
    • 46675001 |Osteoporotic fracture (morphologic abnormality)| is currently a subtype of 22640007 |Pathologic fracture (morphologic abnormality)|.  This conflicts with current literature that considers osteoporotic fractures as Insufficiency fractures.  It is proposed to move 46675001 |Osteoporotic fracture (morphologic abnormality)|  to be a subtype of a new concept "Insufficiency fracture", which would be a subtype of 23382007 |Stress fracture (morphologic abnormality)|
  • If the distinction between traumatic and pathological fractures needs to be made, how do we interpret the meaning of “Fracture of X”? Do we need specific “Traumatic fracture of X” concepts?
    • Proposed naming as additional descriptions listed below:
      • Add "Traumatic fracture of X" to all concepts under the new grouper term: 1003502008 |Traumatic fracture of bone (disorder)| where such a description does not exist
      • Rename concepts with "Pathologic fracture of X due to osteoporosis" to "Osteoporotic fracture of X", to remove the causal DUE TO relations from the FSN.
      • Rename concepts with "Pathologic fracture of X due to neoplasia" to "Neoplastic fracture of X"

Proposed top level hierarchy for Fracture of bone:

Image Removed

Impact on search and CDS:

The creation of the top level grouper 125605004 |Fracture of bone (disorder)| allows for retrieval of all specific types of fractures for through the use of a simple ECL query, such as 

<125605004 |Fracture of bone (disorder)|:363698007 |Finding site (attribute)|=<<272673000 |Bone structure (body structure)|.  For example:

<125605004 |Fracture of bone (disorder)|:363698007 |Finding site (attribute)|=<<71341001 |Bone structure of femur (body structure)| retrieves 

Discussion:

ItemDescriptionOwnerNotesAction
1Call to order and role call

Start recording!


2

Conflicts of interest and agenda review

Welcome to new EAG members

No conflicts noted

SNOMED welcomes new EAG members Alejandro Lopez OsornioMonique van Berkum and James R. Campbell

We appreciate the service of Guillermo Reynosoover the past six years and look forward to continuing interaction through the MAG.  Bruce Goldbergremains on the EAG as an ex officio member due to his leadership on the Event, Condition, Episode working group.


3Update: Spinal cord injuries vs. spinal cord syndromesJim Case

Discussion:

Based on the recommendation from the EAG, the impacted concepts have been remodeled and promoted to the terminology server MAIN branch. 


  •  Jim Case Implement modeling decision regarding assignment of syndromes to lesions. Remove Incomplete cord syndrome relationships where not specifically stated.
4Update: Pathological fractureJim CaseConcept inactivation workgroup status

This working group was formed after the April 2019 face-to-face meeting to develop a comprehensive review and updating of inactivation reasons and historical associations to allow for better traceability of concept inactivations. 

Project page: Management of Concept Inactivation

Slides: 

View file
name2020 Rogers (EAG) Quality review of SNOMED Concept Inactivation.pptx
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Discussion:



5

Evaluation procedures and ObservablesDaniel Karlsson

General discussion page: Observables and Evaluation procedures

Additional discussion: Evaluation Procedures

Presentation: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1l9qttsqa_MKjFQs5TB-3_iofIraiGzP7hjUPPpltUk4/edit#slide=id.g9be6e18298_0_3

Discussion:

Consensus was support for the integration of the Evaluation procedures and Observable entity hierarchies for the single property observations.

Questions arose about the value of the "Performable" type of concept

A small group of participants was organized to begin a pilot to determine the feasibility and level of effort required to transform single property evaluation procedures (laboratory evaluations?) into observable entities and whether an automated process would be possible.


6Next call

Next call October 7, 1600-1800 UTC. Agenda located at: 2020-10-07 Editorial Advisory Group Conference call

ECE TopicsBruce Goldberg