Date
08/xx/2019
1900-2100 UTC
GoToMeeting Details
Attendees
Chair:
AG Members
Observers:
Apologies:
Meeting Files:
Meeting minutes:
Objectives
- Obtain consensus on agenda items
Discussion items
Item | Description | Owner | Notes | Action | ||||
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1 | Call to order and role call | JCA |
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2 | Conflicts of interest | JCA | None. | |||||
3 | Approval of minutes from April 2019 Business meeting | JCA | As of the start of the meeting quorum did not exist. Could not approve. |
| 4 | TMO | Received 51 comments from six countries on the initial draft of the editorial guidelines for modeling and terming drugs. All issues identified were resolved or deferred. Second iteration of guidelines released in early March.
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5 | Substance redesign document review | JCA/TMO | Substance disposition proposal (see attached document) Comments from EAG regarding the proposal were sought. BGO had a question about the use of the HAS DISPOSITION relationship; where would it be used? JCA stated it would be solely used for substances. WRT to substances associated with allergens, how would these be used when the substance had a disposition other than allergen. A substance has a disposition, whether it is being used in another context or not. Disposition is a defining attribute for substances. |
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6 | Guidance for creation of new anatomy concepts | JCA | Issue: In some cases, the representation of FINDING SITE at the proper level of granularity requires multiple body structures. E.g.: The proposal under consideration is: "If two body structures are needed to fully define the finding site for a condition, then a combined anatomic structure shall be created to represent that body structure." For example: A new body structure "Bone structure of distal phalanx of great toe (body structure)" would be created to support the modeling of the concept above. Discussion: PAM supported this approach by email. BGO supports this change as well. YGA was asked about his support and he also supported the new guidance. |
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7 | Editorial guidance on role grouping | JCA | Create a table of mandatory grouping of relationships. Rationale – needed for template based authoring, provides internal consistency of model patterns, allows for batch editing due to consistency. See initial review from Daniel Karlsson and Yongshen Gao The grouping patterns are currently being defined in the groups of templates, but there has been no general guidance for how relationships should/must be grouped. This would define mandatory grouping as well as addressing exceptions to grouping in particular subhierarchies. These would provide guidance for the templates being created. This is project that is currently not resourced, but will be put on the list of needed edits for the revision of the editorial guide. |
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8 | "X in remission" | JCA | Existing tracker: "In remission" disorders Hold over item from initial meeting in Uruguay. Has been brought up again with a large number of requests for addition of "X in remission" concepts. Existing Inception document: Modeling "disease in remission" Document definition: "The period in the course of a disease/condition during which there is temporary lessening or abatement of signs and/or symptoms of the disease." Based on historical view of "Disease in remission" there are some assumptions:
Prior proposals:
One related issue is the current overlap of concepts under "Courses" and "Disease phases". Challenge is that disease phases differ with the "type" of disease.
Question: Pros and cons of creating type specific phases? The result of this discussion should be extensible to other patterns of "Disease in X" (e.g. latent disease, relapse, etc.) for which there are several CRS requests outstanding. Related issue: IHTSDO-407 Frequencies and Courses Discussion:BGO reviewed the document and asked about the relationship of remission to "disposition". He sees overlap between those notions. Favors making disease in remission as a subtype of the disease. Also favored a separate "disease in remission" hierarchy (primitive parent). Needs additional discussion in London. |
| 9 | Extension of range of SPECIMEN SUBSTANCE to physical object | JCA | |
Edited transcripts are located here |
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4 | Device project update | |||||||
5 | ECE update | Bruce Goldberg | ||||||
6 | Clinical core content identification | Jim Case | At the April London business meeting, it was determined that an approach to the identification of the recommended content of the proposed clinical core be determined by a set of both inclusion and exclusion criteria. Agreed inclusion criteria:
Exclusion criteria include:
Discussion: Additional high level exclusion criteria | |||||
7 | Findings/disorders and notes from the ICBO conference | Jim Case | Following a panel discussion at the ICBO conference in Buffalo Aug 1-2, an agreement in principle for SNOMED to collaborate with the OBO community was reached. Much of the discussion revolved around the current representation of diseases as subtypes of clinical findings. There is a clear, mutually exclusive separation in BFO and other disease ontologies based on BFO between "diseases", which are specifically dependent continuents and clinical observations (i.e. findings), which are considered occurrents. The challenges in implementing this notion in SNOMED is explained in https://www.academia.edu/26897896/Scalable_representations_of_diseases_in_biomedical_ontologies. As we had initially discussed, one differentiating feature of what we are calling findings is the notion of temporality, i.e a findings is made at a point in time (an occurrence) whereas a disease is persistent. This is similar to the notions in BFO, but they (and all other disease ontologies) refer to diseases as dispositions (i.e. a realizable entity that is manifested as some abnormal process or structure. For terminologies like SNOMED that do not seek to define diseases, but to identify when a realization of the disease disposition occurs in a patient, this logical representation breaks down. At the ICBO conference, a paper was presented in which an attempt was made to "BFOize" ICD-10. It was clear to the authors of that paper, the conundrum we face, i.e. that the use of the terms in ICD-10 as dispositions was not appropriate because they had been realized and so they modeled their ICD-10 ontology as processes (i.e. occurrents). This was savaged by the rest of the ontologists, but there was no practical solution to the need for representation of realized dispositions in clinical recording. Regardless, it would be of some benefit, in light of our desire to resolve the findings/disorders issue, to attempt to align as closely as possible with top level ontologies. One area where this would be of great use is the move by SNOMED to improve coverage of genomics. This would be greatly enhanced by an ability to integrate with the genome ontology. Discussion: | |||||
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10 | ECE Update | BGO | Update on ongoing issues with ECE Discussion: Complications and Sequellae Proposal made by BGO to model both "Complications" and "Sequellae" using the combined disorder patterns and following the FSN naming conventions for those concepts. Add descriptions that include the terms "Complication" or "Sequellae" as synonyms (or preferred terms where required) and retire the top level concepts of "Complication" and "Sequellae". This is still being discussed within the ECE. JCA leaned towards eliminating the primitive concept "Complication" due to its inconsistent use and to also look at the relationship of these to "Secondary disorders". Whether this fits with Sequellae needs more discussion. Bruce will update after the next ECE call. Allergy model: A revision to the proposed allergy model using the application of the HAS REALIZATION attribute to model "Allergy to X". A quesion about how the current concept model for Substances might impact this proposed model. BGO said he did not think it would have a deleterious effect. There would be some value is using the HAS DISPOSiTION attribute in substances to limit which substances might be used as values for "Allergy to X"; however, this might be an unnecessary complication. Awaiting additional input from Stefan Shultz on the representation of the top level concepts of hypersensitivity condition, allergic condition and pseudoallergic condition.
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11 | Aligning SNOMED CT with clinical use cases | KCA/JCA | Carried over from past meetings: High level discussion on whether SNOMED CT is appropriately organized to support the highly variable granularity of content the are influenced by current EHR applications (i.e. single code recording of pre-coordinated content) and newer initiatives that are focused on capturing more structured data (e.g. CIMI, FHIR) | |||||
12 | Next meeting | EAG |