SNOMED CT Editorial Advisory Group

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Date: 2020-

11

12-

XX

15

Time:

16001800- 1800 2000 UTC

09001000-1100 1200 PDT

Zoom Meeting Details

Topic: SNOMED International Editorial Advisory Group Conference Call
Time: Dec 15, 2020 10:00 AM Pacific Time (US and Canada)

Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
https://snomed.zoom.us/j/93880504512?pwd=Ti85QmZZbHJTMWtXMElCWmZuZmpoQT09
Password: 280970

Meeting ID: 938 8050 4512

International numbers available: https://snomed.zoom.us/u/aflX0gBxo



Attendees

Chair:

AG Members

Observers:



Apologies:

Paul Amos


Meeting Files:


Meeting minutes:

The call recording is located here.


Objectives

  • Obtain consensus on agenda items

Discussion items

ItemDescriptionOwnerNotesAction
1Call to order and role call

Jim Case

Start recording!


2

Conflicts of interest and agenda review


Jim Case

No conflicts noted




Update: Pathological fractureJim Case

Pathological fractures, remaining issue:

Fractures occurring in the presence of disease have FSNs that state the disease is the cause of the fracture (e.g. Pathological fracture of femur due to neoplastic disease).  While the disease is a predisposing factor in the fracture, it is not directly the cause of the fracture.  Previously these concepts had been modeled using a DUE TO = Neoplastic disease or Osteoporosis.  They have since been remodeled to remove the DUE TO and have expressed the disease as a co-occurrence.  At a prior EAG meeting it was proposed to rename these concepts as below:

Analysis of questions from 2020-09-09 call, following model testing:

Questions (and answers):

  • Should we consider ALL fractures as traumatic (e.g. pathological fractures are minor trauma to weakened bone)? [NOTE: This has been the historical representation in SNOMED CT]
    • AG recommended on 2020-09-09 that these concepts be remodeled as traumatic.  Further testing of modeling revision is proposed (see below)
    • Testing of remodeling showed that by creating a generic "Fracture of bone" concept that did not specify whether the fracture was traumatic or non-traumatic allowed for the distinction to be made.  This is based on the determination that by "traumatic, we mean a sufficient physical force that would compromise normal, healthy bone. 
    • Impact of newly propose model on searching and CDS is discussed.
  • Can we infer that all non-traumatic fractures are pathological fractures (i.e. requires some predisposing bone pathology)?
    • As described by the definitions provided by Dr. Goldberg, pathologic fractures are usually associated with disease pathology such as neoplasia, while fractures occurring due to decreased bone density are called "insufficiency fractures".  
    • ICD-10 considers fractures occurring in the presence of osteoporosis as pathologic fractures (see M80 - Osteoporosis with pathological fracture), while ICD-11 does not have any codes associating fractures with osteoporosis, although they do refer to pathologic fractures in association with neoplastic disease.  Neither ICD-10 nor ICD-11 recognizes "Insufficiency fractures" (Not a subtype of ICD Fracture types)
    • 46675001 |Osteoporotic fracture (morphologic abnormality)| is currently a subtype of 22640007 |Pathologic fracture (morphologic abnormality)|.  This conflicts with current literature that considers osteoporotic fractures as Insufficiency fractures.  It is proposed to move 46675001 |Osteoporotic fracture (morphologic abnormality)|  to be a subtype of a new concept "Insufficiency fracture", which would be a subtype of 23382007 |Stress fracture (morphologic abnormality)|
    • If the distinction between traumatic and pathological fractures needs to be made, how do we interpret the meaning of “Fracture of X”? Do we need specific “Traumatic fracture of X” concepts?

    • Proposed naming as additional descriptions listed below:
      • Add "Traumatic fracture of X" to all concepts under the new grouper term: 1003502008 |Traumatic fracture of bone (disorder)| where such a description does not exist
        • Rename concepts with "Pathologic fracture of X due to osteoporosis" to "Osteoporotic fracture of X", to remove the causal DUE TO relations from the FSN.
      • Rename concepts with "Pathologic fracture of X due to neoplasia" to "Neoplastic fracture of X"

    Proposed top level hierarchy for Fracture of bone:

    Image Removed

    Impact on search and CDS:

    The creation of the top level grouper 125605004 |Fracture of bone (disorder)| allows for retrieval of all specific types of fractures for through the use of a simple ECL query, such as 

    Question:  Due to the remodeling of the terms and the proposed renaming, should these concepts be inactivated and replaced with terms that more accurately represent the condition?  There is definitely a change in meaning with the removal of the DUE TO relationship and erroneous FSNs that explicitly represent causality.

    Is simple renaming appropriate here?<125605004 |Fracture of bone (disorder)|:363698007 |Finding site (attribute)|=<<71341001 |Bone structure of femur (body structure)| 

    Discussion:

    Following discussion, a number of options for modeling fractures as a whole were discussed

    Update 11/3/2020:  Based on the discussion and a general consensus that fractures should be agnostic as to mechanism unless specifically stated in the FSN. The DUE TO = Traumatic event relationship has been removed from fracture concepts except where need to preserve proper inferences (e.g. open fractures are by definition traumatic and the DUE TO relationship is needed to classify under "Wound").  This results in pathologic and insufficiency fractures classifying as in prior releases under the fracture of the same bone.  This will appear in the Jan 2021 release.

    •  Jim Case to write up options  for modeling fractures as a whole (i.e. agnostic to cause or traumatic)
    •  Jim Case  to update modeling of fractures as agnostic to mechanism

    		Poisoning, drug overdose, toxic effect - definitions for remodeling

    Farzaneh Ashrafi

    		ECE Topics

    Bruce Goldberg




    		Update from Concept Inactivation WorkgroupPaul Amos


    		Glascow coma score and assessment scale components

    Jim Case

    Andrew Norton

    Based on a discussion at the Anesthesia CRG there is a requirement to add more content to express Glasgow coma scores. 

    Please see full discussion here: https://confluence.ihtsdotools.org/display/ACRGT/Glasgow+Coma+Score

    References to Standarization of the GCS:

    https://zibs.nl/wiki/GlasgowComaScale-v3.2(2020EN)

    https://ckm.openehr.org/ckm/archetypes/1013.1.137/printable

    https://www.glasgowcomascale.org/


    Draft document from Anesthesia CRG: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lZJlarREeIIRPk5E1zVtZUktLQlPH3G5/view?usp=sharing




    		ECE topicsBruce Goldberg


    		Next meetingEAG


    Discussion:










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