Page tree

Versions Compared

Key

  • This line was added.
  • This line was removed.
  • Formatting was changed.


Date and time

2020-01-27 20.00 UTC

Attendees

Daniel Karlsson

Apologies


Objectives

Discuss how to progress a resolution to the Observable/Evaluation procedure demarcation issue.

  • Evaluation procedure and Observables
  • Briefing note for MF, CMAG and other AGs

Discussion items

See below.


ItemDescriptionOwnerNotesAction
1Welcome & apologies
  • Remember recording!



2Conflicts of interest




3Minutes from previous meetingDaniel Karlsson


4London meetingDaniel KarlssonThe schedule is already becoming full, will try to put Observables discussions into EAG and PaLM respectively.

5Nutrition observables

Nutrition observables

Dietitians are hopeful to have a way to specify the route of delivery in observable concepts to distinguish intake, for example, grams of carbohydrate from parenteral nutrition, other intravenous fluids, enteral nutrition, and orally. Broader concepts that are in process for the January 31, 2020 release, such as, 787764007 |Estimated intake of carbohydrate in 24 hours (observable entity)| would be the parent concepts. The input of this group would be very helpful with regard to the modeling and possible new attributes.



6

Observables and Evaluation procedures

Since Observables were introduced into SNOMED CT the demarcation between Observables and Evaluation procedures has been a potential source of variability of SNOMED CT use. In order to progress this issue the group need to agree on what knowledge is needed to inform any future decision.

2019-11-18:

<<404684003 |Clinical finding (finding)| : 363714003 |Interprets (attribute)| = << 386053000 |Evaluation procedure| ==> 7148 concepts

...but also

1350 hits for <<386053000 | Evaluation procedure (procedure) |: [2..*] { 260686004 |Method (attribute)| = <<129265001 |Evaluation - action (qualifier value)| }

3 hits for <<386053000 | Evaluation procedure (procedure) |: [2..*] { 260686004 |Method (attribute)| = <<129266000 |Measurement - action (qualifier value)| }

611 hits for <<386053000 | Evaluation procedure (procedure) |: [2..*] { 246093002 |Component (attribute)| = * }

2019-12-16:

Some more exploration of existing Evaluation procedure content:

(<<386053000 |Evaluation procedure (procedure)| : [2..*] { * = * }) MINUS <<363679005 |Imaging (procedure)|

10 000-ish Evaluation procedures have 2 or more role groups...

<<386053000 |Evaluation procedure (procedure)| : [2..*] { 246093002 |Component| = * }

611 have 2 or more Components, indicating that it could be a panel. However, many examples are just strangely modeled and likely not intended to be panels. Thus, it's not straight forward to identify panel-like procedures among the Evaluation procedure. Sometimes, e.g. 442553005 | Measurement of chloride in peritoneal fluid specimen (procedure) |, additional Components are inherited from ancestors.

(<<386053000 |Evaluation procedure (procedure)| : [2..*] { 246093002 |Component| = * }) MINUS <<122869004 |Measurement procedure|

Even non Measurement procedures have multiple Components...

<<386053000 |Evaluation procedure (procedure)| : [3..*] { 246093002 |Component| = * }

A few have 3 or more components, many of which are in fact panels, but again likely not all of them. E.g. see <67899004 | Complement component, classic pathway (substance) |.

Briefing note should include:

  • Current status in regard to overlap
    • Actual concepts
    • Concept models
  • Current status in regard to modeling of Evaluation procedures
  • Orders and results use of SNOMED CT
    • Actual use of Evaluation procedure concepts for reporting results
    • Actual use of Evaluation procedure concepts for ordering
  • Panels vs. single-measurement observables/procedures


7Ability observablesDaniel KarlssonEvaluate the need for a hierarchy of processes that could be used to define “ability” observables and would allow for useful taxonomic groupings.

8Next meeting

Next meeting is 2020-02-17 20.00UTC



9AOB





Meeting Files

Attachments

Recordings


Previous Meetings

Content Report Table
maxResults12
showCommentsCounttrue
spacesOBSERVABLE
labelsmeeting-agenda

More Zoom details

Topic: Observables meeting

Time: this is a recurring meeting Meet anytime

Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
https://snomed.zoom.us/j/992630241

Or Telephone:
Dial:
+46 (0) 8 4468 2488 (SE Toll)
+61 (0) 2 8015 2088 (AU Toll)
+32 (0) 2 588 4188 (BE Toll)
+1 647 558 0588 (CA Toll)
+56 41 256 0288 (CL Toll)
+420 2 2888 2388 (CZ Toll)
+45 89 88 37 88 (DK Toll)
+372 880 1188 (EE Toll)
+852 5808 6088 (HK Toll)
+353 (0) 1 691 7488 (IE Toll)
+972 (0) 3 978 6688 (IL Toll)
+370 5214 1488 (LT Toll)
+60 3 9212 1727 (MY Toll)
+356 2778 1288 (MT Toll)
+31 (0) 20 241 0288 (NL Toll)
+64 (0) 9 801 1188 (NZ Toll)
+64 (0) 4 831 8959 (NZ Toll)
+47 2396 0588 (NO Toll)
+48 22 307 3488 (PL Toll)
+351 308 804 188 (PT Toll)
+65 3158 7288 (SG Toll)
+421 233 056 888 (SK Toll)
+386 1888 8788 (SI Toll)
+34 91 198 0188 (ES Toll)
+41 (0) 31 528 0988 (CH Toll)
+44 (0) 20 3695 0088 (GB Toll)
+1 408 638 0968 (US Toll)
+1 646 876 9923 (US Toll)
+1 669 900 6833 (US Toll)

Meeting ID: 992 630 241

International numbers available: https://snomed.zoom.us/zoomconference?m=AQWV2VqAIGYWMcMapl9CoYjsaj1TVS7K