Time:
0900 - 1030 PDT
1600 - 1730 UTC
Zoom Meeting Details
Topic: SNOMED Editorial Advisory Group Call
Time: Aug 19, 2024 09:00 Pacific Time (US and Canada)
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https://snomed.zoom.us/j/84726035142?pwd=VLveo9QT0guCv5h31oPT6rheuIlpsv.1
Meeting ID: 847 2603 5142
Password: 849975
International numbers available: https://snomed.zoom.us/u/kcXntNodAV
Meeting Files:
Inline in agenda below
Objectives
- Obtain consensus on agenda items
Discussion items
Item | Description | Owner | Notes | Action |
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1 | Call to order and role call | This meeting is being recorded to ensure that important discussion points are not missed in the minutes. The recording will be available to the SNOMED International community. Joining the meeting by accepting the Zoom prompt declares that you have no objection to your comments being recorded | ||
2 | Conflicts of interest and agenda review | None recorded | ||
3 | Naming pattern for components of clinical syndromes | SNOMED currently has extensive editorial guidance on terming patterns for disease combinations that involve the distinction of causal and temporal relationships between conditions. One scenario that has not been adequately addressed is the representation of variably present clinical manifestations of a syndrome. Syndromes often have multiple associated clinical manifestations that are variably present during the disease process or progression. It is important to be able to specifically call out these conditions as being extant at the time of recording, i.e. they are not definitional for the syndrome in general, but are definitional at the time of clinical presentation. An example is Bechet's disease, for which the pathognomic clinical presentation is oral ulcers, but other inflammatory conditions can occur with the disease (e.g. skin rashes, uveitis, arthritis, etc.). Current editorial guidance (Disorder Combination Modeling) suggests the use of "X with Y" as the FSN terming pattern. Prior discussions have suggested that the use of terms such as "X with Y" and "X in Y" are too vague to represent the association of the condition with the syndrome. The use of "X due to Y" has also been considered inappropriate as the condition is not caused by the syndrome, but is a variably present component of the syndrome. We are seeking advice on a proper terming pattern for this scenario. Some suggested patterns include: "X as component of Y" "X as manifestation of Y" "Y-related X" Discussion: The current editorial guidance are already complicated. Better to clean up the existing combination disorders. Monique van Berkum has presented examples. It may be better to reallocate these to components of an information model as opposed to try and represent them within the concept model. Need more clarity on the use of Concurrent with. Would like to see some terms as examples where the current modeling is not sufficient. The desire is to create a relationship between a disorder and its clinical manifestation. e.g. Lyme uvieitis Consensus is that the current guidance in too complex and the benefits are outweighed by the inconsistency in its application. E.g. 1269223003 |Paraneoplastic uveitis (disorder)| There is a challenge in creating a terminology that is ontologically precise, yet clinically viable. Decision: SI should review the existing combination modeling guidance in order to make it easier to implement. SI should make the current terming consistent with the existing guidance. |
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4 | Representation of Exacerbations | Exacerbations of a specific disease are currently mostly primitive concepts that are subtypes of the associated disease and variably assigned a CLINICAL COURSE of "Acute on chronic" or "Sudden onset and/or short duration". In developing a model for exacerbations, many external definitions do not specify that an exacerbation of a chronic disease is a subtype of the disease, but simply a finding associated with the underlying disease, i.e. an acute worsening of an already present condition, while others look at exacerbations as part of the clinical course of a disease. We have looked at two different models for representing exacerbations:
In the first approach, Exacerbations would classify as subtypes of the underlying disease. In the second approach, the exacerbations would classify as a subtype of "Exacerbation of disease" and an "Acute disease". Given the historical position of exacerbations as subtypes of the underlying chronic disease, SNOMED would like advice on which pattern of modeling would be most appropriate, i.e. retain the exacerbations as subtypes of the chronic disorder or be more in line with external definitions related to a finding related to a chronic disease Discussion: Does the existing qualifier "Sudden onset and short duration" mean the same thing as "exacerbation"? It would be expected that exacerbations clinically fit under the parent disease. Exacerbations limited to chronic conditions may be too limited. The main thing is that exacerbations need to classify as acute disorders. The reasoning behind the use of "exacerbation" was to express the worsening of the underlying disease as opposed to just an acute disease. There does not seem to be utility in being able to capture all exacerbations. The definition of exacerbation must be applicable to all diseases that can have exacerbations. SNOMED also has a number of "Exacerbated by" concepts, where a disease is made worse by another disease. E.g. 1167369007 |Gingivitis exacerbated by hyposalivation (disorder)|. In many of these cases, exacerbation represents a worsening of a condition by another condition, without any reference to the temporal nature of the worsening (it could be acute or chronic). Dorland Dictionary definition of exacerbation "Increase in the severity of a disease or any of its symptoms" does not reference an increase in severity above what is expected. Decision: To be discussed more fully. | ||
5 | Angioplasty cleanup | Angioplasty Having completed extensive analysis, review and discussion, it has been agreed that removal of duplicate angioplasty concepts is in order; (details of discussions and consultation can be found here and on this EAG meeting page ):2024-06-03 SNOMED Editorial Advisory Group Conference Call https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s-CR8nBPOe-LuPdsJSqJSpUMp0uBKFuExTuPlSHCetE/edit?usp=sharing 100 concepts have been inactivated and can be reviewed here: Additionally, based on the procedure as demonstrated in the video linked here: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronary-angioplasty/what-happens: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronary-angioplasty/what-happens/ An FSN of: Percutaneous Transluminal angioplasty of X blood vessel using [imaging] guidance with contrast has been added to those concepts understood to be procedures carried out in this same way. Discussion: This also covers open endarterectomy as well as the percutaneous angioplasty concepts. EAG members will look at the proposed inactivations to ensure the meaning are maintained. In general the proposed changes are accepatble. Details to follow. Decision: | ||
6 | Updated modeling for transplantation procedures | An updated Briefing note for transplantation procedures of both solid organs and tissues is provided. An updated status report is also included below. Discussion: Please read the short update document for today's EAG attached for details (including numbers involved and inactivations). Excluded transplant procedure areas are described. Here is a summary of the model: Solid organ transplant procedures: 260686004 |Method (attribute)| = 410820007 |Surgical transplantation - action (qualifier value)| 405813007 |Procedure site - Direct (attribute)| = << 24486003 |Structure of transplant (body structure)| 363701004 |Direct substance (attribute)| = << 422285003 |Transplant solid organ (substance)| For glands and viscera if required a new subtype of 24486003 |Structure of transplant (body structure)| was created. If no specific graft substances existed 261571005 |Tissue graft - material (substance)| was utilised (or 15879007 |Autograft (substance)|, similarly for allograft etc). See 119911006 |Salivary gland transplantation (procedure)| illustration on EAG update document. Any feedback comments? The majority of tissue transplant procedure concepts (eg. nerves, muscle, tendon ,skin), were inactivated as duplicate to the grafting procedure where this existed, or a new grafting procedure created. The transplant procedure was aded as a synonym to the grafting procedure and a normal body structure used as the procedure site plus a direct substance relationship as described above for glands and viscera. Questions to be sent to Nicola Ingram and Jim Case for discussion and clarification at a future EAG call. Decision: |
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7 | Change Surgical approach to Procedure approach | At the March 2024 EAG call, the group asked for an impact analysis of the change from Surgical approach to a more general Procedure approach. The results of that analysis were presented at the April 2024 meeting. At the April face-to-face meeting a list of non-surgical procedures that might benefit from this change was requested and is attached (download to view as spreadsheet). Discussion: Decision: 2024-04-16: Request to distribute list of non-surgical procedures affected by this change 2024-08-19: |
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8 | Age-related events modeling | Current and prior editorial policy for modeling of Events (<<272379006 |Event (event)|) stated that while the allowed attributes for events closely aligned with the Clinical finding concept model, editorial policy for using these attributes to model events were still under development. However, one restriction has been applied and that is: "The Event hierarchy should not precoordinate periods of life/occurrence within the event concept." It has been brought to our attention that there are a number of event concepts that do reference periods of life in which the event occurred. Examples:
A few of these have been modeled using the OCCURRENCE attribute in spite of the editorial guidance. A member request has asked that we look at this policy as modeling of other concepts is being affected due to this restriction on modeling of events. Q: As the OCCURRENCE attribute is currently an allowed attribute for EVENTS, should there be any restrictions on the use of these attributes. If they should not be used, should the MRCM be modified to remove them from the allowed attributes set? Discussion: Decision: | ||
9 | Bypass graft revision proposal | As requested from the EAG, a list of definitions has been developed that will guide content authors in the correct modeling of concepts related to bypass, bypass graft, shunt, etc.: Proposal for definition of concepts under 48537004 |Bypass graft (procedure)|.
Discussion: Decision: 2024-03-11 Comments will be added to the document by the EAG members. 2024-04-16: Proposed definitions will be revised based on input and resubmitted to the EAG for review. 2024-08-19: |
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10 | AOB | EAG | ||
11 | Next meeting | September 23, 2024 |